tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post6001923185179065875..comments2023-05-10T09:55:41.386-05:00Comments on Texan Rose: Education: Three Points to ConsiderSharonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02983786412675055435noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-70813436676954934602010-11-01T09:31:06.003-05:002010-11-01T09:31:06.003-05:00Cath, I'm afraid you have a bit of a double st...Cath, I'm afraid you have a bit of a double standard. You have been vocal in expressing your "reservations about the necessity and wisdom" of homeschooling. But you seem to be quite uncomfortable with homeschoolers expressing their "reservations about the necessity and wisdom" of public/state schooling.Sharonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02983786412675055435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-78945575105745288292010-10-27T12:14:26.256-05:002010-10-27T12:14:26.256-05:00Can I also come back to Mark's comment earlier...Can I also come back to Mark's comment earlier (the first opportunity I've had, due to work commitments).<br /><br />Mark's category of "circumstantially morally unacceptable" is, I think, the same as my category of whether to let your children consume fizzy drinks and music composed by non-Christians. That is to say, for every decision that you take, you need to bring moralcathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02161002101062247249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-70633492529237106802010-10-27T11:39:52.069-05:002010-10-27T11:39:52.069-05:00But the Establishment Principle doesn't say th...But the Establishment Principle doesn't say that children belong to the State or even that schools belong to the State. It only implies that education is an area where Church and State can beneficially cooperate. <br /><br />Henrietta, do you have a quote for the bit in John Knox's biography? Which biog was it? to give a bit of context for those of us who don't have immediate access cathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02161002101062247249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-37738913431378372232010-10-23T05:16:51.451-05:002010-10-23T05:16:51.451-05:00We read a quote saying that in his biography; some...We read a quote saying that in his biography; someone queried its accuracy previously and I went back to check and yes, he did appear to say just that.<br />HxThe Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01278520269119195703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-37898905414765503052010-10-22T08:54:32.034-05:002010-10-22T08:54:32.034-05:00Henrietta, did John Knox really say that children ...Henrietta, did John Knox really say that children belong to the State (or church), or is that just how his views have been interpreted?<br /><br />After conversations with a few family members whose understanding of the Establishment Principle is much better than mine, I am convinced that the Reformers would never have used the Establishment Principle to justify sending children to the state/Sharonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02983786412675055435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-23221654515654999812010-10-22T05:22:25.266-05:002010-10-22T05:22:25.266-05:00I think the antipathy in Scottish Presbyterian cir...I think the antipathy in Scottish Presbyterian circles comes from the "Establishment principle" and the idea (as propounded by John Knox) that children belong to the State, not their parents.<br /><br />(Andrew (Middleton) can explain this point of view more coherently than I can)<br /><br />In my view children don't "belong" to anyone other than God, but I believe that The Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01278520269119195703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-38123066592508008282010-10-21T11:40:27.923-05:002010-10-21T11:40:27.923-05:00I think so too Sharon, we are probably about 20 ye...I think so too Sharon, we are probably about 20 years behind the US and Australia also as far as home schooling is concerned. I look forward to the day it's accepted as the norm, should I ever see it! :o)<br /><br />Just as a point of interest, last week on Scottish radio there was a discussion on whether a council should open a school for 1 pupil at a cost of £57,000 a year. The discussion Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-42707961069917387612010-10-21T09:24:24.698-05:002010-10-21T09:24:24.698-05:00Dawn, homeschoolers faced much the same opposition...Dawn, homeschoolers faced much the same opposition here in the US when the movement first took off in the 70s and 80s. My grandmother was just sure that my parents were going to ruin us. :) But by the time she passed away, she thought quite differently; and homeschooling has come to be well respected both in conservative Christian circles, and in secular circles as well. <br /><br />As a childSharonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02983786412675055435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-22355819430418322712010-10-21T04:02:29.716-05:002010-10-21T04:02:29.716-05:00I have widely observed that Scottish Presbyteriani...I have widely observed that Scottish Presbyterianism in particular has a very narrow minded view of home educating. <br /><br />I can say that - it is what I am, and they are the circles I move in. It is what I have been brought up as and it is what I have also married into. Here and there you will find folk who accept home educating as a parental choice and respect that choice. Other than that, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-5610291299650471722010-10-20T22:19:07.979-05:002010-10-20T22:19:07.979-05:00Thanks for the input, Mom. :)Thanks for the input, Mom. :)Sharonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02983786412675055435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-16089071764619338102010-10-20T08:18:09.064-05:002010-10-20T08:18:09.064-05:00We successfully educated our 5 children at home, s...We successfully educated our 5 children at home, some for a few years, some for 12<br />Why do I say it was successful? Because they are now, to some degree or other, what I had hoped they would become. Yet, homeschooling was only part of the reason for this success, and many parents have had the same success or more while public-schooling. Some other parents, who seem to have done everything Rebeccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13303636144369001646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-7153482157058770192010-10-16T10:47:42.921-05:002010-10-16T10:47:42.921-05:00Have no idea who Ken Ham is?? The older brothers c...Have no idea who Ken Ham is?? The older brothers certainly know him. Where were you when us monks when out to see his creation museum in San Diego right after receiving the Santa Fe school superintendent's tsk tsk letter about school absenteeism and then when we got back we did his roof? And his friends' roofs?ernie smithnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-43724516809811335112010-10-15T23:42:44.086-05:002010-10-15T23:42:44.086-05:00I'm not sure if the addition of my comment is ...I'm not sure if the addition of my comment is still pertinent as far as time goes, but I was just thinking about this in a broader sense, and I had to laugh to myself. Why are Christians debating among themselves whether a Christian or a secular education is better? Perhaps it’s in the definition of “secular”? <br /><br />Surprisingly, the opposition we get to the educational choice we have thedudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00114614263860166439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-5169939260559414752010-10-14T21:21:32.546-05:002010-10-14T21:21:32.546-05:00Agreed, Mark, and thank you. Happy belated birthd...Agreed, Mark, and thank you. Happy belated birthday, by the way. :)Sharonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02983786412675055435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-79779690840568757022010-10-11T23:40:09.342-05:002010-10-11T23:40:09.342-05:00"Then their position is incoherent. If someth..."Then their position is incoherent. If something is morally unacceptable, then it is always morally unacceptable. Compare: 'Christians do not believe that telling the truth is always the only morally acceptable choice.' "<br /><br />Incoherent? <br /><br />I had a teacher who said that education was the ability to distinguish.<br /><br />It is not morally acceptable to lie. <brMarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13043557136137476377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-66680204818120171612010-10-11T08:13:57.033-05:002010-10-11T08:13:57.033-05:00Yes, Henrietta, I was thinking recently that maybe...Yes, Henrietta, I was thinking recently that maybe I could do more good for the cause of homeschooling just by sharing little things about how it works, what our days look like, and so on, so that homeschooling is not such a strange and unfamiliar thing in people's minds.Sharonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02983786412675055435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-59802167518162333392010-10-11T08:12:56.044-05:002010-10-11T08:12:56.044-05:00Third question is easy, school influences children...Third question is easy, school influences children. Children are placed in school among peers and beneath teachers. I mean they are under the authority of, and in scriptural subjection to, teachers.<br /><br />Both peers and teachers (or adults and friends, whatever we call them) will influence children.<br /><br />We are all influenced by those we mix with (whether in real life or on line, grin)The Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01278520269119195703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-14956273488702551082010-10-11T06:48:06.182-05:002010-10-11T06:48:06.182-05:00Sidestepping debate with Cath - who has more time ...Sidestepping debate with Cath - who has more time and intellect to devote to this than I currently have - just a couple of quick things.<br /><br />Talking about home education in the abstract is quite different from having to make a decision as to your own children.<br /><br />I'm not interested in "winning" arguments. Changing what other people do with their own families, or The Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01278520269119195703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-34881457467652718022010-10-08T16:52:16.168-05:002010-10-08T16:52:16.168-05:00"Homeschoolers do not believe that homeschool..."Homeschoolers do not believe that homeschooling is always the only morally acceptable choice."<br /><br />Then their position is incoherent. If something is morally unacceptable, then it is always morally unacceptable. Compare: "Christians do not believe that telling the truth is always the only morally acceptable choice." <br /><br />Ie, you can't have it both ways. You cathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02161002101062247249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-55288736801904947172010-10-08T09:35:31.099-05:002010-10-08T09:35:31.099-05:00Oops, wrote my above two comments before seeing Fl...Oops, wrote my above two comments before seeing Flora's. Thanks for the clarification, Flora.Sharonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02983786412675055435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-9702942173124115332010-10-08T09:29:17.375-05:002010-10-08T09:29:17.375-05:00The last two paragraphs above were intended to app...The last two paragraphs above were intended to apply generally to this discussion, not exclusively to Cath's last comment. :)Sharonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02983786412675055435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-18461583283576166032010-10-08T09:27:34.352-05:002010-10-08T09:27:34.352-05:00No one said that choosing not to homeschool is hyp...No one said that choosing not to homeschool is hyper-Calvinist. What was called hyper-Calvinist was this idea that "Only God can change the heart, so it doesn't matter where we send our children to school."<br /><br />If I were to present an argument against state schoolers' views, based on misrepresentations of said views, I am quite sure that my points would be lost on my Sharonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02983786412675055435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-71269174201169891472010-10-08T09:03:01.265-05:002010-10-08T09:03:01.265-05:00I don't think anyone on this thread is denying...I don't think anyone on this thread is denying human responsibility. Parents have a huge responsibility to keep their children away from evil and harm, and Christian parents who send their children to state schools take this responsibility no less seriously than parents who home school.<br /><br />The point is that schools are not in themselves evil or harmful. There may be things in Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-54837026145968071642010-10-08T04:58:47.893-05:002010-10-08T04:58:47.893-05:00Henrietta - on the other post, choosing not to hom...Henrietta - on the other post, choosing not to homeschool was described as bringing up your children for the world. Now it's described as hyper-Calvinistic. I'm not sure that either is helpful.<br /><br />The basic issue is the nature of parents' "duty" to their children. The pro-homeschooling case is typically based on the assumption that a parent is failing in their *duty*cathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02161002101062247249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2372888352536087201.post-23520957094544253022010-10-07T09:11:32.778-05:002010-10-07T09:11:32.778-05:00Hypercalvinism: commonly defined as "an empha...Hypercalvinism: commonly defined as "an emphasis on God's sovereignty to the exclusion of man's responsibility." I know that hypercalvinism is not a term to use lightly, but you're not the first person to have brought it up, Henrietta.<br /><br />Proverbs 23:13-14: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou Sharonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02983786412675055435noreply@blogger.com